Flood Defences - But at What Cost?

I grew up in Clontarf. It is in my bones. I swam as a young person from the boat slip and still regularly walk the wooden bridge and promenade.I would ask Dublin City Council to give this more consideration and not to take the view away. I would ask Dublin City Council not to put money first. I would ask Dublin City Council to listen to what the residents are sayings as these are the people affected.I would ask Dublin City Council to look at other options which would keep the view and protect the area from flooding.

Likewise!  As with Catriona Coyne’s comment, I too, moved to Clontarf from Santry about 3 years ago. I have a close attachment with Clontarf and the sea front area in particular. Many years ago my Dad often brought us down this way where we would either go boating or swimming at Bull Island, have hours of fun in St Annes Park and also go for cycles along the seafront. Simply having that view of the seafront when not walking or cycling in or near the Promenade always evokes personal and pleasent memories for me. I appreciate completely the issue of flooding in the area close to the seafront and the damage it can cause to homes and businesses. However, like so many other people here have already stated - there must surely be another alternative. I’m grateful to the organisers and well done to all who turned out at Wooden Bridge last Sunday (16th Oct)

I moved to Clontarf for the sea views - I’m totally against this idea!! Well done to the organisers of the protest!

The perpetrator(s)of this ridiculous proposal in DCC,  to a problem which hardly exists , should be identified and outted! They are clearly not suitably qualified to manage taxpayers money! We’ve all seen the scurrilous tactics employed by crooked planners and politicians in recent years and the moral and financial hardship it has inflicted on this country!  This is more of the same….lets move on! Replace these people with men and women of vision….something this proposal clearly lacks!  Who are these individuals and what is their real motive ?  Flood defence it certainly is not ....even my 12 year old daughter spotted the numerous flaws! Transperancy, honesty and accountability is part of the “new” Ireland ...lets see some of it from DCC . Start by getting these incompetent twits out of responsible planning positions!

There is no need to build this barrier ruining the seafront, and how much will it cost the council, do something useful with the money please.

We just need some flood defences
We don’t need no eight foot wall
No huge embankments on the seafront
Council leave the front alone
Hey! Council! Leave the front alone!
All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.
All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.

We don’t need no desecration
We just need some flood control
No huge embankments on the seafront
Council leave the front alone
Hey! Council! Leave the front alone!
All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.
All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.

Stunning lack of respect for the beauty of Clontarf Promenade. There is no way this is going to be allowed to happen.

This Wall would never be built anywhere else on the planet to block a beautiful sea view !
Typical irish politics and planning!

Having lived on the seafront and environs for over 30 years I only recall one serious flooding incident and that was in 1981 when the end of Vernon Ave, was submerged causing significant damage to shops. However has anybody considered how much of this flooding was caused by fresh water unable to flow away because of outlets being backed up by seawater. If most of the flooding was caused by freshwater—-it rained incessantly all that day-any height of wall, berm or obstacle wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference.

Re: Suggestion/ Costal Defence

Best of luck with the campaign,  I saw the artist impression of the purported mound/sea wall in yesterday herald ;

My suggestion is that the “old sea wall” is reinstated (present day footpath). This will tie in with the original historical architecture of the road.

By reinstating the old sea wall - you have in effect trapped any excess sea water between the reinstated old sea wall and the present day sea wall.

Increased drainage between the two sea wall will drain any trapped sea water.

Kind Regards
Steve Coffey

Are we employing donkeys in the DCC planning department? How could any sane person think that this proposal would be accepted by the people of Clontarf - or the people of Dublin?

obviously designed by a man

Update from Posted by Aodh?n ? R?ord?in - surely we can take Dublin City Council to court over this, please read this article…..

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise a local issue, namely the proposed Clontarf flood barrier, which will have a citywide impact.

In September 2005, Dublin City Council?s Clontarf promenade steering committee considered different options for the flood defence-arterial water main works and chose option 5, comprising walls and bunds containing water mains. No public representatives, residents’ groups or business groups were represented on this committee. However, the environmental impact statement, EIS, states the main stakeholders were present. The minutes of the meeting indicate that council officials realised, even at that point, the need to provide clear images and drawings for the public consultation process. This recommendation was not pursued, however.

A consultation evening was held in St. Anthony’s Parish Church in Clontarf on 12 June 2006 to deal with the scope of the information to be included in the EIS. Residents’ groups were invited to the meeting. According to a council e-mail of Tuesday, 11 October 2006, the public consultation process on the flood defences-arterial water mains did not commence until 3 December 2007. Accordingly, this meeting cannot be considered to have been part of that process. Indeed, the EIS had not even been completed at that stage.

In November 2007, all residents’ groups were written to informing them that Dublin City Council was about to apply to An Bord Plean?la for planning permission through the submission of an EIS, as yet unseen by residents, businesses or local representatives. The letter also informed them a period of public consultation would take place and that full details of the project would be on public display for eight weeks in Dublin City Council?s civic office, Marino library, none of which are in the Clontarf area itself, and on the council?s website. On 3 December 2007, this submission and public consultation was further advertised in the Irish Independent and this date was the commencement of the public consultation period.

One day later, on 4 December 2007, Dublin City Council applied to An Bord Plean?la for permission for the works as outlined in the EIS and first advertised to the public one day previously. Subsequently, in July 2008 planning permission was granted by An Bord Plean?la.

There is no evidence of any involvement of either public representatives, residents or local businesses, prior to a decision being made in September 2005, that the preferred option for the works was for bunds-walls rather than four other options under consideration. Although the council has accepted the height recommendation changed after plans were first presented to local councillors in 2006, this was not communicated and no supplemental presentation was made detailing the alterations or the reasons held by the council for departing from the original proposal.
Prior to the planning application being made to An Bord Plean?la in December 2007, no public representatives or residents groups had sight of a completed environmental impact statement, EIS, or had an opportunity to provide feedback or comment on it. The EIS was made available on 3 December - the application was made to An Bord Plean?la on 4 December. As a result, the only opportunity these stakeholders had to make an input into the process was that afforded them by the An Bord Plean?la system at a cost of ?50. Although the EIS was made available after the application had been made to An Bord Plean?la, it was never available at any public location in Clontarf. My point is that the process was deficient from the beginning.

I wish to bring the Minister of State’s attention to another matter. The development is in close proximity to a number of special protection areas and a special area of conservation, namely, north Dublin Bay. I direct the Minister of State to Article 6(3) of the habitats directive and the guidance provided by the Commission, those being, EC (2000), EC (2002) and EC (2006). Any plan or project that may have a significant effect on a special area of conservation shall be subject to an appropriate assessment of its implications for the site in view of the site’s conservation objectives. This appropriate assessment should include, where appropriate, obtaining the opinion of the general public and must comply with the requirements as set forth by the directive and clarified by the Commission’s guidance notes and the European Court of Justice, ECJ, cases C-127/02 and C-418/04.

The EIS on the works in question does not comply with the requirements of the directive and relevant explanatory documents, since no appropriate assessment was undertaken. In taking the decision under An Bord Plean?la reference 29N.JA0008, the competent authority - Dublin City Council - has failed to take account of the appropriate assessment of the implications of the development for the designated Natura 2000 site in light of the site’s conservation objectives and has not made certain that the development will not affect the integrity of the site.

Like the council, will the Minister of State accept that the consultation process was deficient? Will he accept the documentation that I will provide him for his officials to examine? Will his officials examine the relevant European legislation and the ECJ cases I have outlined? Will the Minister of State engage with the Irish Insurance Federation, IIF, to ensure that the question of these works proceeding or not proceeding in the immediate future will not have a negative impact on householders on the Clontarf promenade?

Deputy Brian Hayes: I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I know the area well, having played there as a young boy before going to the west side of the city. I also know of people’s concerns, but I must point out that this is a Dublin City Council scheme. The objective of the Office of Public Works, OPW, which has national responsibility for providing policy and funding, is to work with local authorities in the delivery of such schemes.

I will set out the facts. The Clontarf sea front area was identified as one of the areas most at risk of flooding in the Dublin coastal flood protection project study, which was completed in 2005 by international expert consultants Royal Haskoning and commissioned by Dublin City Council with funding from the OPW. Following the study’s completion, Dublin City Council appointed Royal Haskoning to design a flood relief scheme for the area. The scheme was designed to the normal standards required for coastal flood protection, including protection against a flood with an annual exceedance probability of 0.5%, typically known as a 200-year flood event, with an allowance for climate change.

The OPW understands that Dublin City Council made available full details of the flood defence project to residents, local businesses and elected representatives at the various informal and formal public consultations in 2006 and 2007 leading up to the submission of a full EIS to An Bord Plean?la in 2007. The submission was also advertised in the national press, site notices were erected and the project details and EIS report were put on public display in the council’s civic offices and in Marino Library. The EIS took full account of all aspects of the project, including the visual impact of the flood defence structures. The EIS and the project were subsequently approved by An Bord Plean?la in 2008.

Dublin City Council has since advanced the scheme as part of the north city water main project. The procurement process for the overall scheme, which includes the north city water supply scheme phases 1 and 2 and the flood defence works, has been progressed as one contract for reasons of efficiency and economies of cost. The OPW has agreed in principle to provide the funding to undertake the flood defence aspects of the works, amounting to approximately 46% of the overall costs. This is Dublin City Council’s scheme, not the Government’s. We provide the money for schemes and set national policy frameworks.

This scheme incorporates the use of landscaping rather than extensive wall construction. This is designed to minimise the impact and, in so far as it is possible, retain the character of the Clontarf sea front. The council accepts that there will be a loss of visual amenity. Without this project, however, the area will continue to flood, which the Deputy knows it has done frequently.

I understand that, in response to concerns raised by residents and members of the business community in recent weeks, Dublin City Council made a presentation to a special meeting of councillors of the north central area committee yesterday afternoon. At that meeting, the council agreed to arrange meetings with the residents for next week with a further area committee to take place on 7 November. The OPW had a member of staff at the meeting who explained that the rationale for the OPW providing funding for the scheme was based on the scheme being cost beneficial and that it would conform to the normal standards applying to such coastal schemes. The OPW awaits the outcome of the further consultation process

Aodh?n: I thank the Minister of State for his reply, although the matters it addressed differed from those that I raised. Will he accept the documentation? If I forward it to his Department, will he ask his officials to investigate under section 21 of the Planning and Development Act on An Bord Plean?la whether every statutory box was ticked in respect of the consultation process? Will his office also take into consideration the European legislation to which I referred? I will forward it to his office and to other Ministers with responsibility in this regard. Will the Minister of State take into consideration the insurance implications of these works going ahead or not going ahead and engage with the IIF? If his office commits to doing so, it would provide solace to the residents and wider community affected. These are three simple suggestions and I appreciate the Ceann Comhairle’s indulgence.

Deputy Brian Hayes: The suggestions are good, but they will not make any difference. The key issue is that this is a Dublin City Council scheme. The council is looking for money from us. To obtain that, it must show that the State will get value for the money we spend. We are prepared to consider any alternative arising from the consultation with local councillors last night and with residents next week. If the council makes an alternative proposal, we are prepared to consider it.

The only criterion we have when an application is made is whether it is worth spending money. There is no point in spending money if it has no value when an event occurs. All of the EU legislation in the world will not make a difference. This is a question of getting value for the State’s money. If an alternative proposal is brought to our attention by the council, we will consider it.

We have set money aside for the scheme. If it is not spent this year, I cannot guarantee the people of Clontarf that it will be spent next year. If a flooding event occurs, I ask people to realise that the houses, businesses and communities along the long Clontarf Road will suffer the brunt of it.

The only way to stop the floods is to build a wall or a variety of other schemes that may help. We are open to considering all alternatives, but time is of the essence. Given the fact that we are not the party conducting this process, our task is to fund something if it has value and will stop a flood. Otherwise, the money will not be provided. The next time a flood occurs, Deputies will ask me why we did not do something.

Dublin City Council must sort this issue out with the local community and local councillors in the first instance. Assuming it does, I will consider any alternative proposal. We have a clear model on which we determine cost-benefit analyses. If an alternative delivers value for the State’s investment, we will consider it and progress the scheme. I hope I have been fair, honest and forthcoming in responding to the Deputy.
Posted by Aodh?n ? R?ord?in: 
Thursday, October 13, 2011

Update from Richard Bruton:

Thank you for your emails. There is huge concern that the proposed flood defence system will seriously impact upon the visual amenity of the Bay, and that the proposed wall will restrict the amenity of the Promenade and the Bay. 

I have spoken to Residents Groups and following that to the City Manager to express the serious concerns about the Flood Protection Project. I understand from the Manager and from our local Councillors that a consultation is now being undertaken and further discussions are to be initiated by the Council with the Office of Public Works and An Bord Plean?la. The aim is to see can a modified design be achieved that will still deliver the needed flood protection. I understand from the Office of Public Works that they will consider such alternatives. The Manager will report back to the City Council at their November meeting on the outcome.

I will continue to work with local Residents Groups and local representatives. I hope that some agreement will emerge.

Kind regards.

Yours sincerely,

Richard Bruton, TD

Deputy Finian McGrath: Next Sunday, at 3 p.m., thousands of people will meet at the wooden bridge in Clontarf to protest about the proposed construction of an eight foot high barrier on the seafront. 

This protest is being organised by Councillor Damian O’Farrell and a number of local residents.  I raise this because Dublin Bay is important to the environment, tourism and economy of the city.
End of Take

Update from Finian McGrath

Is the Minister aware that many people have fought hard for several years to protect and preserve Dublin Bay, particularly the 52 acres, as it is a huge amenity for Clontarf on the north side of Dublin and for the people of Dublin city and county?  Thousands of people walk, cycle and jog around this beautiful amenity.  Now there is a proposal to ruin it. 

I ask the Minister to intervene on this matter.  Is he aware of the proposal to build a structure up to eight feet high along the promenade?  Does he agree that this could destroy a beautiful scenic amenity and will he ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan to support the residents of Clontarf?  Will the Minister urge Dublin City Council, the Minister, Deputy Hogan and the Office of Public Works to consult with local residents and come up with a common-sense plan that prevents flooding but does not destroy a beautiful scenic amenity?

  Deputy Brendan Howlin: I share the Deputy’s regard for the amenity of Dublin Bay.  It is one of the great amenities of the capital city and should be available to citizens into the future.

I understand that Dublin City Council is engaging with all the local residents regarding the concerns they have raised, particularly about the height of the proposed flood defences.  A balance must be struck.  Areas that are prone to flooding must be protected, particularly if global warming is to mean a greater threat of flooding.  That balance must be struck.  In Enniscorthy, in my own constituency, there is great debate about flood defences which impact on amenity.  We need to get that balance right.  I understand that the consultations are ongoing.  I understand that the Office of Public Works is also involved in reviewing the proposed flood defence scheme to ensure that the proper balance is struck.

Deputy Finian McGrath: I thank the Minister for his response.  Most Deputies will agree that balance is key in finding a resolution that satisfies all sides of this issue.

The recent conference in Dublin Castle looked at tourism and ways of getting people to visit Ireland.  Is the Minister aware that the flood defence plan would have a significant economic, social and environmental impact on the Clontarf area and on the thousands of people who use it?  In 2014, for example, we will have celebrations to commemorate the Battle of Clontarf. 

Does the Minister accept that the Aarhus convention was created to give citizens the right to a say in decision making that affects the environment?  Is this proposed plan in breach of that convention?  I ask the Minister to check that out.  I also ask the Minister to urge all those involved in this proposal to go back to the drawing board and come up with a sensible plan which deals with the issue so that the protection of the environment remains foremost, people are protected from floods and this wonderful amenity in Clontarf can be saved

  Deputy Brendan Howlin: I am glad to hear of the plans to commemorate the Battle of Clontarf.  We need to have as many tourism initiatives as we can.  This was central to the discussions on tourism promotion at the recent economic forum.

Balance is the essence of the issue the Deputy raised.  If this issue had arisen last February or March, when there was extensive flooding in Dublin city, we might have had a different type of debate.  We need to ensure that proper flood protections are put in place with the least environmental impact on the residents involved. 

I will pass on the Deputy’s deep concerns to the Minister of State in my own Department who is in charge of the OPW and to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.   

This is pure vandalism by Dublin City Council. No account was taken about the environmental impact such a construction would have on the Coast Road.  It seems the total hostility of the residents of Clontarf to this construction is irrelevant to Dublin City Council. I have lived in Clontarf all my life (nearly 50 years) and I agree with everything that has been said by everyone else here.

Does that mean that the Clontarf Road will no longer be known, as the Coast Road but the Flood Barrier Road?

As a Clontarf resident for over 50 years I would agree with J.Grogan.  My experience of any flood damage in this area is caused MAINLY from water coming from under the ground, not from over the prom. wall.  The drainage system needs to be addressed, not the occasional high tide flooding.  If they get away with this ludicrous wall, we will still have flood damage as the real problem will not have been addressed.

Am i right in thinking it was Orlagh who got this councillor on board. if so im sorry our councillors seem to be to busy making cuts to help the clontarf residents ,I suggest we help our goverment and give them the 9+ million this stupid project will cost as we dont need it and the money can be spent in alot better ways to help this country not destroy it…...........

Cant believe that this plan has got this far. The sea view is amazing and should not be blocked by a great big ugly wall

Letter from Fianna Fail Councillor this a.m. 14th October ...........

Thank you for your email regarding proposed flood defence works along the Clontarf seafront.

When this matter was initially put to Councillors by senior Council officials the height was to be 1.2 meters.  During the planning process and discussions between Dublin City Council, An Bord Plean?la and the Office of Public Works, the eight then went from 1.2 to 2.75m without any consultation whatsoever with local residents or Clontarf Councillors.

At our meeting with senior City Council management yesterday (12 October) I and other Councillors strongly argued on behalf of residents that the new height cannot and must not go ahead. We made it very clear to the Manager that the height he is proposing is most definitely not on. 

The Manager did acknowledge that he had failed to communicate with us on the new flood barrier height and agreed that we needed to find a resolution to the problem.  He gave a commitment that no decision would be taken on the matter prior to his giving Councillors a full report on the project and an opportunity for Councillors to further address the issue at our next City Council meeting on November 7th. 

The Manager also said that over the next three weeks, City Council would engage with residents and businesses through locally arranged meetings in an effort to try and reach agreement on an acceptable flood alleviation project being built where insurance would not be an issue.  I said that Clontarf residents want a flood defence barrier but not one that?s 2.75m in height.  I said that the matter could not be resolved in such a short a period as 3 weeks because people need time to work together in a sensible and collaborative manner so that we can achieve a balanced resolution to this debacle. 

Please keep in touch with me on this issue.

Regards,

Deirdre.

Deirdre Heney.

Please stop this utterly unacceptable stupidity. I refuse to believe that this is the best solution to this problem (that doesn’t even seem to exist).

I’m originally from Marino and have many memories from my childhood and early adulthood playing,walking and cycling along that seafront. I cant believe what they are planning to do, it will ruin what is such a beautiful area. There has to be a more reasonable solution!!!

More “muck savagery” from the “cute hoors” and gombeen men” who have already wrecked my beloved city and country with their crass actions. Flood defences how are you!,this is all about the watermain and an excuse to fill in the 52 acres.
          We must rescue our city and country from these mad philistines. Time is running ,we may need serious direct action.
                                            Ringsend born and bred but a proud northside resident.

This plan of DCC’s is BONKERS! I just can’t believe they would think for a minute that locals would take this proposal lying down!!! Do they plan to do the same along the Sandymount coastline??? They did a similar micky- mouse job at the causeway entrance to Bull Island some years back and got away with it- in order to keep travelers off the green spaces along there, they heaped tonnes of clay and now we have ugly grassy mounds to look at as we walk along the coast down to the beach. I know many women who will not walk along the coast in that area due to safety issues, as you cannot be seen from the road. They could have erected steel barriers along that stretch- it’s not a very big area, but instead they ruined the whole space- it looks ridiculous…I can’t imagine how awful a 3 km mound would look along the Clontarf Coastline-this is MADNESS!

I am so appalled at this ridiculous plan, what do the dcc think we are all 5 year olds and take this sitting down, well we will fight to save our sea view
so all the people of clontarf get ready we have a new
  BATTLE OF CLONTARF to fight not 1014 but 2011
so get our good men women and children ready we can beat them off if we all stick together, good luck….........

Is the sea front not a special area of conservation :

See

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0212.html

This might be relevant

SITE SPECIFIC OPERATIONS OR ACTIVITIES REQUIRING CONSENT

4.Altering watercourses or wetlands, including changing the height of the water table, blocking or altering the flow of the water or deepening any channel.

5.Developing, operating or allowing leisure or sporting activities liable to cause significant disturbance to those species specified in Schedule 3 of these Regulations or damage to their habitats.

6.Any activity intended to disturb those species specified in Schedule 3 of these Regulations including by mechanical, air or wind powered or audible means.

7.Use of off-road recreational vehicles, other than by a landowner or on a public road or a non-public road serving forests or woodlands.

8.Harvesting marine species, unless for personal use not exceeding certain limits as may be set by the Minister from time to time.

9.Construction or alteration of tracks, paths, roads, embankments, car parks or access routes, or using or permitting the use of land for car parking.

10.Planting of trees.

11.Reclamation or infilling.

12.Removal of soil, mud, sand, gravel, rock or minerals.

13.Dredging whether for fishing or other purposes.

14.Introduction (or re-introduction) into the wild of plants or animals not currently found in the area.

15.Any activity which destroys habitat, except normal maintenance activities as defined in approved farm plans.S.I. No. 212/2010 ? European Communities (Conservation of Wild Birds (South Dublin Bay and River Tol www.irishstatutebook.ieThe Irish Statute Book database comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas, Statutory ...Instruments and Legislation Directory for the period 1922-2010.See More..

You would think with all the engineering capacity in this country, that a more suitable method for laying pipes & storm protection can be sought. This would seem like the most primitive and badly thought out approach! This proposal cannot proceed in it’s current format.  Ireland has a unique coastal landscape. The Clontarf seafront is prided by residents, and visitors alike.

What if they lose the money .................................Clontarf Sea Front is worth more than that…...what they are proposing is a SAFETY HAZZARD, it will promote ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR and DE-VALUE houses in Clontarf, not to mention a wall (The Berlin Wall) FULL OF GRAFFITI….

They should be taken to court over the process for this proposal.

I ASK THE CLONTARF RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION AND CLONTARF BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, IF WE CAN TAKE THIS TO COURT.

ORLAGH BURKE

I was under the impression that the sea front was a special area of conservation

See

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0212.html

This might be relevant

SITE SPECIFIC OPERATIONS OR ACTIVITIES REQUIRING CONSENT

4.Altering watercourses or wetlands, including changing the height of the water table, blocking or altering the flow of the water or deepening any channel.

5.Developing, operating or allowing leisure or sporting activities liable to cause significant disturbance to those species specified in Schedule 3 of these Regulations or damage to their habitats.

6.Any activity intended to disturb those species specified in Schedule 3 of these Regulations including by mechanical, air or wind powered or audible means.

7.Use of off-road recreational vehicles, other than by a landowner or on a public road or a non-public road serving forests or woodlands.

8.Harvesting marine species, unless for personal use not exceeding certain limits as may be set by the Minister from time to time.

9.Construction or alteration of tracks, paths, roads, embankments, car parks or access routes, or using or permitting the use of land for car parking.

10.Planting of trees.

11.Reclamation or infilling.

12.Removal of soil, mud, sand, gravel, rock or minerals.

13.Dredging whether for fishing or other purposes.

14.Introduction (or re-introduction) into the wild of plants or animals not currently found in the area.

15.Any activity which destroys habitat, except normal maintenance activities as defined in approved farm plans.

The Assistant City Manager has said that if the council do not draw down the funds the money will be lost.
The Government is trying to save ?4 billion next year. Tell Richard Bruton that ?9 million or whatever the amount is can be saved by not proceeding with this totally unnessary expenditure by the council.

part of email sent to Dublin City Council
I am astounded by the arrogance and uncaring stupidity of the Dublin City Council, this plan will destroy the amenity of the promenade in Clontarf forever, and if your successful, you will go down in history as the Manager of Dublin City Council who allowed the planners in the Council to destroy Clontarf promenade.

We will be joining with all the residents of Clontarf and like minded people of Dublin in taking whatever actions are deemed necessary to stop this plan proceeding. As far as my family are concerned they are prepared to camp out on the promenade with other like minded people to prevent this obscenity being built .

Please dont build this wall! This will destroy the lovelieness of the area and having lived in Clontarf it was the main attraction. It was so great to be able to walk along the promenade and see the lovely view.
DO NOT DO THIS COUNCIL PLEASE! There’s bound to be another way.

I am appalled and saddened at the proposed plans for the seafront and I can’t believe that the planning office are supporting this !
Surely there are alternatives to obliterating the seafront .

Shock , Disbelief, Incredulity .......... Who in their right mind thought this was a good idea ........ Its pure Vanalism of one the most scenic views in Dublin , not to mention turning an amenity and area of natural beauty used by thousands into a potential dangerous home of anti social behaviour ..... I thought we had seen an end to the mindless stupidity of Government but no ,theres always another level of incompetence they can achieve ........

This is an absolutely outrageous proposal. What is the most effective way to express one’s objection to this? Letter writing/emails to Dublin City Council or members of government? Has a public protest been organised?

This is such a huge mistake. An 8ft wall, blocking the view? We need to seriously consider why this seems like a good idea? I understand that a flood defence needs to be introduced but I don’t understand why such a high wall? Surely in this age of innovation a better solution can be introduced? Why do we continue to be so haphazard about our beautiful landscape?

In the 60’s many beautiful buildings were knocked down to make way for ‘modern’ building’s which are now eyesores, e.g. on Fitzwilliam Square…where the longest expanse of intact Georgian architecture anywhere in the world was destroyed in the 1960s to make way for what is now nothing but an eyesore. Those buildings can never be brought back! Lets not make the same mistake again!

It breaks my heart to think that people in a place of authority deem this kind of solution to a problem acceptable? I say employ uneployed architects. Do a competition. Be innovative! Be thankful that we live in such a beautiful area and lets not destroy it for cheap solution. All people want at the end of the day is a view of the sea. At least in this time of recession and depression people let people keep that.

” Outrageous, ludricious, absord ”

are the only words to describe what the planning office are proposing to do along the sea front in Clontarf.  Firstly, it is destroying the natural beauty of the area, green belt and recreational activities, it is a safety hazzard, because no one in their right mind will walk behind a 9 ft wall.  It will promote anti-social behaviour and I am sure the wall will get its fair share of graffiti.  Is this what we want for Clontarf ?? 

Can we take out an injunction and take this to court.  There were insufficient notices along the front advising the residents of Clontarf about this absurd proposal.  I think one resident said it was 15 years ago since a flood, or perhaps even longer.   

What kind of people are in this planning office,  the only thing I see behind this is the taking over of Dublin Bay which we must avoid at all costs.
How dare they come in with such proposal.

I though the recession was a nightmare, but this is equally causing stress!!!!!!!!!
Its more than a nightmare and an absolute shame.  I will be at the Bull Wall at 3 on Sunday for the talk in support of preventing this. 

SHAME ON THE PLANNING OFFICE AND WHERE ARE OUR LOCAL POLITICIANS??????  THEY NEED TO GET MOVING.  WHERE ARE THEY GETTING THE 9 MILLION FROM FOR THIS UNNECESSARY WALL.  PERHAPS THEY ARE BORROWING MORE FROM THE IMF….. AND WE ARE PAYING FOR IT???????    9 MILLION COULD BE PUT TO MORE USE THAN BUILDING A WALL AND DESTROYING NATURAL BEAUTY….....

IT WILL ALSO DEVALUE THE VALUE OF HOUSES IN CLONTARF, GRAFITI WALLS?????

WHERE ARE THE POLITICIANS .....CALLING ON RICHARD BRUTON, FINIAN MCGRATH ETC.  YOU NEED TO STEP UP TO THE MARK.

YOURS IN ABSOLUTE GRIEF,

ORLAGH BURKE

This is a disgrace. It will mobilise normally placid residents to revolt. There are alternatives to ths plan which must be explored.

This is crazy.  What idiot came up with this dumb idea? This not only destroys the area but devalues it by millions of euros.

Get some sense for Gods sake!

Stop this NOW

Awful Idea, I am completely and utterly opposed, It would be a disgrace to lose that view.

Under no circumstances should this development be allowed to proceed.
Obviously this is the cheapest “solution” DCC have come up with.

Whatever it takes - this needs to be stopped.

What a dreadful idea to build this wall.  What are DCC thinking of. This must not happen.

Hi, I do not agee with the building of an 8 foot high wall on the seafront. There must be another way of avoiding flooding without blocking off the sea. It will be highly unsafe having a high wall and I imagine thee will be lots of graffiti all over the wall and you will hardly be able to see the the sea. It will not be a pretty view. I strongly believe this should be stopped.

I strongly believe that the best physical feature of Dublin city is the easy access for the public to the seafront promenades in Clontarf and Sandymount.  This will destroy a significant portion of that; I cannot believe that this is only coming to public attention now.  Whatever happened to the consultation process?

This must change.

As Clontarf residents for over 50 years, we have happy memories of pushing our children in their pram along the seafront.  Now in our late 80’s with our children pushing us in wheelchairs we still get that same enjoyment from looking across the bay, feeling the wind on our face and watching the world go by.  We feel very sad that in our twilight years we may not have this opportunity for much longer.  It’s a sorry day for the people of Clontarf who must stand firm against this development.

The wall defense is an absolutely ridiculous idea and will ruin the business of local restaurants whose business feeds from the beautiful sea view, which they wish to cover up with a 8ft high wall. The floods are rarely higher than about two inches, and they only get higher than that every 100 years or so. The wall is unnecessary and absurd. It’s a cheap way of solving the water pipes issues but is     clearly not ideal. New Orleans built 23ft walls and Japan built 30ft storm walls and they didn’t stop what was coming. The wall is useless.

The proposal for the flood defense wall is a complete over reaction and should be a last resort. shifting the tidal flow back to its origins directions or introducing the necessary valves as outline by J Grogan’s earlier post makes much more sense as it would protect the sea view and safe seafront promenade for all who have enjoyed it for centuries, and also would be more cost effective. This is a cover up for a cheap solution for solving the issue of laying new water pipes and not to do with flood defenses as we are being falsely led to believe.  These walls should not be build as there are cheap and more effective solutions out there for preventing floods in this area. as for the water pipes…thats a whole other issue which should be dealt with underground.

This proposal is daft and must be withdrawn immediately.

The proposed development, as I understand it has, to be viewed in two ways – one being the attitude of the City Fathers and the second one is the physicality of the actual development.

As one lady caller to the Joe Duffy show indicated, Clontarf appears to suffer more from the flooding cause by rainfall than what might come over the walls from the sea.  If you bear in mind the various roadways that lead down to Clontarf – Howth Road, Hollybrook Road, Stiles Road/Seaview Avenue, Castle Avenue, etc – all of these routes are on serious gradients.  So much so that invariably in days of heavy rainfall the water naturally rolls down the slopes and finds its levels at the seafront with limited means of escaping quickly be it into the drains or into the sea itself.

Having said that, we have to work with what we have.  There is a peculiar trait in Ireland that if you give certain people a title/uniform/cap/badge or anything that implies authority the owner or wearer can at time assume somewhat lofty attitudes to the point where autocracy and dictatorship can set in.  In past years when we have had such contentious matters as Maastricht or abortion or anything that sets the nation into serious debate, our political leaders, either to win votes or as acts of patronisation, tell us we are all sophisticated and highly educated Europeans, and that we should be able to spot spoofers, chancers and scaremongers from far off, and that given our sophistication and education we can reason the ins and outs of any debate to arrive at an intelligent understanding of the facts.  Let us use that education and sophistication to better resolve this highly emotive issue.

What appears to have happened here is that the process seems to have been flawed and proper procedure does not seem to have been followed.  In the old days when everything was “black and white” it was tantamount to treason to question a politician or local representative, doctor, bank manager, professional adviser, policeman et al.  Mercifully those days are gone and the old phrase of “Doctor knows best” is a relic of the past.  And so it should apply to the decision of some Dublin City Councillors who appear to be forcing this project through.  Giving “the great unwashed” what is good for them coupled with the “mushroom treatment” frankly will simply not be tolerated these days.

Now to the structure.  If my understanding is correct, this 3 km length of extended “Mini Newgrange” (for want of a better description) will house a water pipe or pipes.  If it were to be completed how often would it have to be subsequently dug up in parts in order to repair breaks and leakages?  In life very little can be guaranteed and you can take with more than a grain of salt any assurances that the pipe(s) are leakproof and won’t need repairs and maintenance.

Moreover picture the upheaval and the patchwork “make do” reinstatement jobs.  And factor in if there was a situation where the sea encroached over the “mound” where does the water run to, assuming it is now trapped between the road and the “mound”?  Imagine the unsightly mess.

Unless a proper and comprehensive consultation process starts with the people, the works contracts and any other documentation needing to be signed should remain in “draft” form for now.  There are plenty of national and international consultants who must be able to come up with something more aesthetic and practical and functional.

I only heard about this 24 hours ago and after reading what I can about it, my reaction is still one of disbelief.

Flood defences are necessary but at least let us look at sensible options.  And while there seems to be money to spend on this project, maybe could we consult with Dutch engineers, for example, about how to do this properly?

I’m at a loss as to how anyone in local government or An Bord Pleanála thought that this would be a good thing.

My message to them is:  please do not build this monstrosity.  Please look at other, better alternatives to prevent flooding and invite expertise on flood defenses and drainage.  You surely must agree that a 8 or 9 foot wall is not something you would like to have to look at everyday from your sitting room window.

The proposed flood prevention measures are ridiculous. There are much more simple and practical engineering solutions to the problem. May I suggest just two:

1. The use of demountable flood barriers which can be removed/installed as and when needed. In order to install these to give adequate performance it is necessary to dig foundations and install an anchoring system underground. When putting in the foundations they could dig an adjacent trench to allow room for the water main.

2. The use of flip up flood barriers which are recessed into the ground when not in use. Again foundations/anchoring is needed to be put in place with this system so the water main could be placed underground at the same time.

I found both of these systems as “off the shelf” purchases from a website (www.floodcontrol.co.uk) in under a minute of internet searches. How can so called planners spend months if not years and vast amounts of money to come up with ludicrous plans that ruin the enjoyment of one of the city’s best amenities?

Why are there no photo montages of the proposed work. If the drainage pipeline wasn’t included what would the defences look like? Is this just a cheap solution? I don’t believe that an 8 foot wall would be allowed anywhere else, what would happen if this was proposed for Lahinch or Dingle or any other seaside area?
The people of Waterford have recently put flood defences along the city quays, they have not destroyed the city. There must be alternatives to this ridiculous plan for Clontarf.

I will be doing everything in my power not to let this go ahead. I’m not a protester normally, but this has put me over the edge.
Dublin port want their 52 acres
City council want their pipe
And we get screwed completely.

Never mind the fact that if this goes ahead all Clontarf house prices will take a 10-20% hit.

So if it’s march, chain, shout, talk, I’ll be there..

Captain Blyth I believe designed the walls of Dublin Port. The long span of Bull bridge WAS a tidal release so a similar span/s at the causway would return this feature.With the concidence of a spring tide, the rivers in full flow and a stiff SE wind naturally the sea will cross the wall.
Picture this situtation with the causway open you would have the excess water sluicing towards Sutton and out into the Irish Sea as it used to
Forget this berm wall,restoring the flow would result in a clean bay and lagoon between Dublin Road and the island,.

This is an appaling piece of work from the so called planners. Yes some flood protection measures are necessary but in my 28 years of living in Clontarf there have been only two or three occasions when flood waters have come across the Clontarf Road to affect businesses/property owners.

The complete destruction of the use, enjoyment and amenity of the promenade, not only for residents of Clontarf but for all Dubliners and tourists alike who come to make use of the promenade, is completely disproportionate to the level of flood risk that exists.

Representations need to be made to Phil Hogan, Minister for the Environment, who is empowered under the Planning Acts to designate an area as an area of special amenity having regard to either (a) its outstanding natural beauty or (b) its special recreational value, in which case it is much more difficult for the Council to implement haphazard plans such as this.

Howth head is protected by a special amenity order in this way and the CRA needs to put pressure on the Minister to direct the planning authorities to make such an order in respect of the promenade. If such an order was made the plans would be stopped in their tracks.

The seafront is an essential part of North Dublin life… the people watching is immense, the views are gorgeous, folks are friendly, it’s fantastic to see joggers and cyclists using the area, not to mention different sports clubs and fitness classes meeting there every evening. Most importantly it is safe to use at night-time which cannot be said about the majority of our public spaces. I certainly wouldn’t go out for a night-time stroll in St Anne’s, Bull Island or Burrow Beach.

I don’t think I could handle my daily commute if the sea view was obscured in Clontarf. When driving my blood is usually at boiling point after crossing the city in rush hour traffic, once I pass The Yacht I can start to relax into the journey. When I cycle the route I feel genuinely lucky that there is such a safe and scenic path for us to enjoy.

It seems bonkers to vandalise one of our cities treasures, that helps people get off the couch and enjoy the outdoors. Is the flood risk in the area really that dangerous? What’s wrong with sandbagging as usual?

Whats more, is this going to be the rule of thumb for seafronts all over Dublin? Will we all have to walk goodbye to the promenades in Sandymount, Sandycove, Bayside, Sutton, Portmarnock, Malahide etc?

Come on guys this can’t happen to our seafront

One of the most beautiful things in Dublin is the drive by the sea from Clontarf to Howth.  Dublin City Council have done wonderful work in constructing and maintaining the fantastic cycle route and the installment of the lovely retro lighting along the Prom not to mention the ongoing work at St Anne’ where the Historic Pond is now visible from the road.

Why then are they taking this enormous step backwards? Why does it seem like they actually want to destroy something thats upkeep is to their credit. Perhaps thats why this slipped through - we believed they had the area’s best interest at heart. 

We have to call on the sane and good people in City Hall, the ones who have been entrusted with this protecting all parts of the City for future generations, to stop this madness.

Perhaps if we found a rare ‘snail’ living on the Prom we could stop this ...

Would it be possible to get an injunction to stop these people proceeding with this monstrous plan for Clontarf.  I am sure many people would subscribe to the cost if it was feasible.

I am disgusted and terrified at the thought of this new proposed flood defence. 

As has been mentioned by a few others - I would absolutely attend any kind of public walk / demonstration that is being organised in response to this.  And I would hope others would too if it comes down to it. 

We CANNOT let this go ahead as planned.

This city already all dirty and not many places where to go and have a lovely walk.. This will destroy the beauty of clontarf!!!! when it is a sunny day this area are packed by families and people. Don’t do his… I worked for years in one of the clontarf coffee shop and guess what we had never been affected by flooding…

I am shocked at the proposed flood barrier that is going to placed on the seafront - which I only learnt about today. 8 foot high - are we mad! This would take away one of the beautiful stretches of coasts in Europe and is the reason I live in Clontarf. This would be a disaster for the area and it should be stopped now. If you take a survey of the residents I would suspect that nearly 100% of people would not want it - even businesses and locals that are directly affected by flooding. .

I did not know about it. I walk that area every day and did not ever see a notice for the proposed work otherwise I would have objected

This proposal needs to be stopped. No serious thought could have been put into this. It is shameful that this “Wood Quay” type of obsenity should ever have been dreamt up. This lunacy will destroy a rare Public amenity that is viewed and used by thousands of people throughout the year from early morning until late at night. BTW, this is the same Council that proved totally inept at keeping our footpaths and roads in some fit state during the recent bad weather. Lets get out on Sunday at 3pm and help put a stop to this madness.

I’ve tracked down some of the information as to why the Flood Barrier has been set so high.

Dublin City Council Fingal County Council (possibly DLR coco. Co. & South Dublin as well) appointed Royal Haskoning to study the potential risk of flooding for the whole of the Dublin Bay area.

It is this report that has set the Flood defence level for the area. Fingal Co. Co. Have released the section of the report that covers boroughs within their boundary, i.e. Howth, Baldoyle, Portmarnock however I have not yet been able to track down the section of the report that covers Clontarf.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Water/WaterServicesProjects/SurfaceWaterProjects/CoastalFloodProtectionScheme/FileDownload,21667,en.pdf

The report did give the following predictions

Current 200 year Flood level Dublin Port Lighthouse ? 3.13m O.D.
Predicted 200 year Flood level Dublin Port Lighthouse 3.25m O.D.

Current 200 year Flood level North of Howth ? 3.27m OD
Predicted 200 year Flood level North of Howth 3.39m OD

Note their proposal for the Fingal area is to raise the flood defences to a level less than 4m OD looking at DCC?s proposals for the Clontarf area they have set it at 4.84m OD minimum. There is no justification for this as our current & Predicted flood levels are over 100mm below that covering areas of Fingal.

Can you get a copy of the Royal Haskoning Study covering Clontarf? It could have some crucial information in it. the fact DCC have not released it into the public domain leads me to believe there are findings in it they do not want the public to see.

http://www.maritime-rh.com/project-experience/381.html

Cheap option. Can they not just dredge the bay? Get rid of the big sandbanks etc. This thing will look terrible.

This is outrageous.  The project must be stopped.  There are alternatives. 

We must all come out for the protest scheduled for Sunday at 3pm at the wooden bridge.  This will be an important showing to the city manager the number of ?ordinary people? that are against the plan.  It?s not just the ?rent a protester? crowd.  EVERYONE MUST GET INVOLVED.

I presume our local TD’s are wholeheartedly supporting opposition to this plan. If I remember correctly there was great pride expressed and credit taken by some TD’s when the lighting scheme on the seafront was put in place.

Is the 8 foot mound a convienient solution for placing the drainage pipeline as opposed to a more expensive option of burying it below ground?

Crazy idea….. Yes something needs to be done to stop the flooding for the homes but come on an 8ft wall???

From the experience of living in Clontarf for over 65 years, having been a member of Kilbarrack Sailing Club and spent all my working life involved with the sea I am convinced that if the causeway was breeched there would be no flooding problems.  The natural flow of the tide has always been to flow in from the Sutton end and out the Clontarf end.  Due to the blockage of the causeway the sea backs up and can only flow sideways thus causing a build up at both ends of the lagoon and therefore causing flooding at spring tides

i think Cllr Damian O Farrell should be congratulated for his quick actions in alerting the public to another Dublin City Council Fiasco. I met him while walking on the promenade. He was conducting an interview with the Northside People to alert the locals to what was going on. This was the first any of the residents living opposite the bull wall had heard of it. He quickly followed this with posters organising a demonstration for Sunday. Nice to see a politician working FOR THE PEOPLE. Well done Damian. eleanor lanigan

This plan is an absolute dung-ball of an idea. In New Orleans they built the levee walls 23 feet. In Japan they built storm walls 30 feet. We all saw what happened - Mother Nature owns the deck and she’s going to win every time.

Specifically, they want to build some walls, and some mounds along the promenade. Parts might look okay, other parts may not - I can’t say until I see it completed. The fact is, unless you build a solid, continuous 8 foot wall from East Point Park all the way up to the lighthouse at Howth, the sea will win. Any weak point will be breached by the sea.  And they want to go as far as the wooden bridge? Seriously? The wooden bridge that’s proceeded by a wall no higher than my knee and sits in front of another residential area?

The problem in this country is drainage. We have pathetic drainage and everyone knows it. Dublin Corporation built a new drainage system in our laneway that drained uphill. I’m not lying. Every year in UCD they built a new faculty or building, and every year the place would be flooded. The most relevant example is Fairview, right beside the coast, and which floods quicker and more frequently than anywhere in Dublin 3,5 and 7, halting traffic and flooding the shops.

This is another example of busy-body councils, politicians and builders who have nothing better to do than justify their budget by doing stuff - anything - just for the sake of it; so they can put their name to it.

And you know what else?  Knowing the Oirish arse-baggery of it all, these idiots are going to construct this mess such that all the water will be trapped in-land.

Surely water will find its own level….so, by blocking it from Clontarf , will it flow either up the liffey(unlikely!) or will it flood Dublin 4 ?? ....what then ??? should they not also build an 8 ft wall at sandymount ?.... never - after all it IS the Southside.!  Huh !
Wouldnt do to upset the dublin 4 residents, would it !!! Sod the northsiders they say !  HOW RIDUCULOUS IS THIS ? Dublin Bay is something we are all proud of, who in their right minds would spoil it? This is just a “back door” to filling in the 52 acres.

I am not buying for one minute that our public representatives were ‘not aware’. Each and everyone of them should have to explain themselves or risk losing their seat.  They need to get onside and quickly to prevent this happening.  There appears to have been no consultation with the residents. Shame on you Dub Co Co.

I consider myself lucky to live in this area for the past 20 years and though times are hard for lots of people the lift in spirit I feel when walking along the seafront each day is invaluable. Please lets stay strong and strongly oppose this unbelievable decision.  In any other country they would embrace the beauty that is Clontarf promenade not destroy it.  Only in Ireland would such an atrocity be allowed.

It’s blatantly obvious that an ulterior motive underlies this whole nonsense; 52 acres comes to mind. Shame on all involved. Fianna fail have been destroyed by their greed and unethical behaviour. Everyone involved in bringing this project thus far have blighted themselves in the same way. It’s a waste of time to list the large number of reasons why this should not be done, as so many others have so eloquently done so already. But if our elected representatives at local and national level don’t pull out all the stops to halt this ” berlin wall”, and replace it with something suitable, their legacy will be no different to that of fianna fail - an utterly and totally indefensible disgrace.

I am writing to express my strong opposition to the absurd proposal to build a c8ft high 3km long wall on the sea front in Clontarf.  I would like to know who is responsible for project managing the planning application, the environmental impact study, obtaining local input and putting the contract to tender.

That it would not cross this individuals mind and/or the minds of those responsible suggests that there is an agenda at play or they are incompetent.

Under no circumstances should this development be allowed to proceed.

DCC, our respresentatives, have a duty of care to ensure that this project is stopped and not simply amended or postponed.

We bought our home on the Clontarf Road 3 years ago, so we could enjoy the beauty of the sea views. I am appauled that planners who obviously do not appreciate the views, live in Clontarf or understand what pleasure the prom gives to people every day can think they are going to be able to continue with this project uninhibited. This is going to become a nightmare as it will not only destroy Clontarf, but will encourage huge anti-social behaviours. There has got to be a better way and this must be stopped !!!!

I consider myself extrememly lucky to live in this area all my life and though times are hard for lots of people the lift in spirit I feel when running or cycling along the seafront each day is invaluable. Please lets stay strong and strongly oppose this unbelievable decision.  In any other country they would embrace the beauty that is clontarf promenade not destroy it.  Only in Ireland would such an attrocity be allowed.

I, like most others, object to to this proposed mound/wall.  I am not an engineer but I cannot believe that there are no more imaginative solutions to a flood risk, unless as suggested the agenda is really a low cost watermain or even more sinister a prelude to a further run at the 52 acres infill.

At this stage I would be interested to hear what potential action is available to Clontarf residents - political intervention, legal challenge etc.

This can’t be allowed to happen. Will the planners wake up and come up with a decent solution.

That would be a disaster, a shame, a disgrace, words are not enough to sum up the feelings that come to my mind when I read about these plans. This is absolutely ridiculous, unbelievable, not to say stupid. have they seriously thought about this? have they seriously considered all the options? We cannot let them do this to the community, this is definitely going to have a negative impact, be it on the insecurity, the environment, this is terrible! No to the wall!

I consider myself extremely lucky to have grown up with a seaview on the Clontarf Road. Now that I have grown to become a professional albeit I now live in London, I was considering purchasing an investment property in the area, which I have now stopped because of what will be a blight on the area. House prices will undoubtably take a hit, the recreational scenery will be affected and nobody has explained if the local the wildlife will be negatively affected.

I sincerely believe the consultation or understanding to the local businesses or residents of the community of Clontarf (20,000+ people affected) has not been done, and this is another act of mindlessness on behalf of the local bureaucrats and civil servants. Who is actually in charge?

Facebook page has been set-up - www.facebook.com/weneedtosaveclontarf

I am beyond disgusted at this situation and the way it has come to fruition. Keeping the plans from the public is absolutely outrageous. To loose this amenity would be tragic on so many levels. I hope DCC realise the fight they have on their hands. We will not take this lying down. Momento is gathering and locals are furious. We need the full support of our local councillors, 3 of which did not show at last nights meeting. Where was Naoise O Muiri, Finian McGrath and Richard Burton? We cannot let this happen to our prom without fighting it tooth and nail!

I am completely opposed to the plan by Dublin City Council to erect a wall of up to 8ft high on the promenade in Clontarf which will effectively block the sea views. This is been done in the absence of any consultation with local residents and would ruin an amenity that is used by young and old and enjoyed by all   . This is absolute madness and has to be stopped .

This whole proposal seems totally excessive.

Are there any comprehensive records of incidents of flooding in recent years, such as time of year, tide conditions, wind and rain conditions? I would have thought that efforts to pinpoint the “at risk” areas would benefit from accurate reports and that temporary defenses could be put in place in those areas at times of heightened danger.

Living in the Clontarf area for over 40 years, as far as I remember, most of the flooding occurs at the spring and neap tides and at times of large rainfall and high wind conditions. The floods seem to be largely concentrated at the Alfie Byrne end of the promenade, where the Tolka River has been diverted and forced to flow in a different direction, which has not helped.

The building of the causeway on the Bull Island has also interrupted the natural tidal flow in the bay and could be “opened” to allow access water to flow again.

I would be very curious to hear from residents who have actually been flooded over the last 50 years and where they are located; I would suspect that it would be very few and in isolated pockets (and it goes without saying that I really feel very sorry for them).

The existing vista of the sea and city is one of the most beautiful in Europe and is the envy of tourists from all over the globe. Dublin is one of the few cities in the world that enjoys sea front “drives” both north and south of the river. If it was to be lost it would be a very regrettable move for the city of Dublin and would be on par with the Council’s other “planning crimes”, like the destruction of the Viking remains by the same City Council back in the 70s.

The water mains argument seems to be a complete “red herring” as there is ample room to carry out that project on the existing glass, but as others have indicated, it would be a cheaper option to lay the pipes on the ground and simply cover them over in the guise of “flood defenses”.

The post on here by J Grogan, a civil engineer, is possible the most accurate summing up of this decision.

If the conspiracy theorists among us wanted to speculate, would this “blocking” of the sea views, have anything to do with the proposed 52-acre infill in the area by Dublin Port!

The view that this horrible wall will block belongs to all! No body had the right to build a ugly wall there! I cant believe this! I walk there every day. Also I cannot believe how permission was granted for this! Itll destroy the prom, for the sake of saving money on sandbags.

No to an unsightly wall blocking the sea views.

How did An Bord Pleanala justify their decision to grant permission for this outrageous proposal?
Surely the reason for having a planning board is to protect the landscape from being destroyed by unsightly structures well, it doesn’t come much worse than this!
We cannot allow this to go ahead.

Water will find its own level and even if they build a huge wall, the seafront will flood in heavy rain when the tide is full with an easterly wind. The surface water drains run to sea along the sea front and it is through these drains that the water will backup resulting in flood conditions. What is needed is a method of removing the surface water efficiently.

This plan of Dublin City Council cannot be allowed to happen.

Absolutley ludicrious plan!!! it will completely change the face of Clontarf and its main attractions in a negative way forever, This needs to be stopped

I phoned the project manager for the Dublin city council flood defence project today. He is Adrian Conway.  I spoke to him for 15 -20 minutes. He said there was a lot of disinformation being spread about 8 foot high walls. He referred to the defences being only around a meter high in parts. I asked him the average height of the mounding. He stated this “AVERAGE HEIGHT of the mounding to be 1.7 METERS “. The avrage line of sight height for a man is 1.5 meters. Therefore on average there will be no sight of the sea along the Clontarf Road. In fairness he was pleasant to talk to and I agreed with him that I was going on heresay for most of my information. He said I should go to the Environmental Impact Study to see a better picture of the true details of the proposed development. After the call I went to this document which is about 350 pages long and would take a good month to study in detail. The one thing which I was able to ascertain was that there is not one artists impression of the horrors of the proposed development. One has to wonder why. One other point worth noting is that he informed me that there was one solitary planning permission notice posted posted for this 2 mile long development. It was posted on the pumping station at the end of Vernon Avenue

This is shocking. Some imagination is required to come up with a better solution. We cannot allow our beautiful promenade to be ruined.

I would love to know who the moron is that would dream up something so dreadful as a 7 foot wall along the seafront in Clontarf.  I wonder where he or she lives, certainly not in this area thats for sure.  For any eejet to think this up is madness itself and the person should lose their job whatever that might be.  Why not put in a trench which could be covered in with a small mound of clay to take the surface water away and prevent flooding - just a suggestion, any other suggestions?

I think something may need to be done to protect clontarf from flooding but building a huge wall may not be the answer, what we need to remember also is the seafront its reclaimed land, it was built so the sea is bound to flood over at times cause its man made, I used to live in clontarf and the
sea front is nice an parts so while they are proposing this they need to respect the area also, and I have said before have a protest, for some reason all the clontarf people love having a moan, its one of the reasons i moved out!

I’m currently abroad at the moment and i got a phonecall this morning off my friend to tell me of the horrific news. I’ve been born and raised in Clontarf and i’m so proud of the beautiful area and promenade that it has to offer. If this plan goes ahead the face of Clontarf will be changed forever, i’m simply appauled by underhanded actions that have been taken behind closed doors. The people of Clontarf AND Dublin need to join together and come out in force to object this disgraceful move!

This is just terrible.well done to everyone handing out flyers at the local schools this morning the more people who know about this the better.email all the city councillors and put pressure on them.this cannot be allowed to go ahead.

Most of the flooding in Clontarf is as a result of rainfall. The surface water or rainwater is piped down to the seafront and out into the bay. If the conditions, namely, an easterly wind, a high tide and and a lot of rain floods occur.
If they build the defences 50 ft high it will not prevent this most common form of flooding. This is an over engineered project.
Clontarf prom is a of a number of lungs for the city and a very important one. This proposal will seriously damage this lung.

Just spent lunch discussing the proposed bund with my fellow Civil engineering colleagues & they found the idea laughable. it’s ridiculous to build an expensive bund when non return valves on the weep holes would do the same job at a fraction of the cost.

It?s obvious the real driver for the council was the construction of the watermain with minimal ground works. it’s hardly ironic the proposed height of the bund matches the height required construct & cover the proposed watermain without digging below ground level. The whole thing wreaks to high heaven that the consultant was given a brief to construct a watermain along the coast yet fudge it to give the illusion they are designing flood protection. Tell me there are houses have come under threat of flooding close to the wooden bridge & I?ll tell you you?re a liar. The only reason the proposed works continue down to here is because the council spend so much time repeatedly repairing the watermain along that stretch. Their incompetency is no excuse to destroy our landscape.

Just to leave you all under no illusion this is really about a watermain. If you want to analyse the need for flood protection you appoint a company like Hydro Environmental to carry out the study. If you want to design a watermain you contact White Young Green. Who did the council appoint? You?ve guessed it White Young Green.

Clontarf is all about the sea view and the promenade,, to change it in such a base manner is a disgrace,,,, This is all about not spending money and I don’t believe it would be allowed happen on the southside,,,,,,,,,, I, like nearly every resident in Clontarf and the surrounding areas use the seafront most days.. To change it in the way that is proposed will only leave it open for unsocial behavior. This must not happen and it is up to everyone of us to make sure that it does not…..............

Crazy!!!!!! You would never get this carry on south of the river (just look at Sandymount)
Surely our councillors and politicians are vehemently opposed to this you would think .
In this day and age are there not sophisticated solutions that would allow a mechanically operated shield to protect the coastline (when the once every X number of years threat is identified?)

Yet the proposal enforces us all to live every day of the year with this eyesore (graffiti strewn monstrosity). Lets make all the Mandarins who have voted for this easy…. hair brained solution, speak out and detail why they have accepted this archaic medieval defence that will haunt all of us in Dublin for generations to come! -Paddy

You cannot do this, is it not bad enough there are hardly any nice green areas or walks in the city without taking away the beautiful clontarf sea front. So many people enjoy this every single evening. Seriously I’m disgusted!!!

I was shocked to hear of this wall being built on the prom. It is a ridiculous idea. I think we would all agree that something needs to be done to stop the flooding but this is ridiculous. I am also shocked at the underhand way the council have pushed this planning through. It seems yet again there is one rule for the ordinary people and a completly different set of rules for the councils etc. When will this country change? This needs to be stopped and re- thought!

Has the city council completely gone off the deep end???? The wall will destroy a famous landmark, get covered in graffiti, ruin the coast route and cost a fortune.

—John

Madness, what planet do these people come from. No to the wall.

I’m an Artane resident, and have lived in the area for 45 years.  I completely object to the building of this wall.  This issue affects not only Clontarf Residents but all northside residents, who avail of the seafront for outdoor acitivites.  I was delighted to see it highlighted in this week’s issue of the ‘Northside People’.  I walk my dog there, I cycle there with my children, and my husband digs for worms for his fishing.  But most of all, to take away that view of the sun reflecting off the water on a beautiful morning, is to take away my daily reminder that there is a God.  CLONTARF’S CALL - NO TO THE WALL.

All of the local representatives, TDs and senators who support this proposal should be named and shamed.

It’s also worth considering running a candidate or a number of candidates in the next local elections who will pledge to support the people living in the communities they represent and not the bureaucrats in City Hall and other local councils.

PS Discussion on Liveline at 1.45 today (Tuesday Oct 11th).

Reading the report again, the more I think the primary reason is the watermain and without it, these works would never be going ahead. Flood detention was brought into it to try and sell it to locals to think they were getting some gain.

Reading the report again, the more I think the primary reason is the watermain and without it, these works would never be going ahead. Flood detention was brought into it to try and sell it to locals to think they were getting some gain.

It has to be a joke to build a wall and block our beautiful views that god has given to us

The EIS was carried out in 2007 and if anyone had read it, it clearly says bunds up to 2.75 metres. I have only become aware of these proposals lately but I am suprised that none of the local councillors etc. that are talking about only being aware of 1m bunds had not had sight of this report before now, which is quite clear.

http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/waterprojects/Documents/Appendix 3 Part 4 EIS Report.pdf

Don’t get me wrong, I am totally against the proposals. I am a local resident, although not immediately opposite the proposed works, I am a very frequent walker and my wife walks the seafront daily to work. I would not be keen on her doing this when almost completely hidden from view. Very unsafe I think.

Looks to me that it as much about being able to install the watermain at ground level without having to dig for it, and covering it over, therefore cheaper, as it is about flood prevention.

I think, no, I strongly believe, that the people who came up with this idea are absolute imbeciles, on that point alone I will object to any proposals to build any form of barrier.
The existing wall has withstood all seas, but yes we do have very high seas from time to time, like every 100 or 200 years but destroying the scenery just to facilitate some idiots whim is just not on.

The building of this permanent flood defence structure (and water-main held within) along the sea-front will utterly change the nature of Clontarf forever.
Since the Vikings pulled their long-boats onto the shore on April 24th 1014, Clontarf and the sea have been intrinsically linked. When the proposed 1000 year anniversary celebrations of the battle take place in 2014, that link will have been tragically severed, 997 years after it first appeared on the public conscience.
I ran the Dublin marathon in 2008 & all through Spring, Summer & Autumn of that year trained almost nightly along the promenade. In the Spring & Autumn in particular, it was often dark, but the fact that for the entire length of my run I had a constant view of the road ensured I never felt in any way unsafe, and I’m a 6” man in my 30’s. Many young women also ran alone, and I would imagine they would not feel safe doing so once the proposed defences are in place. Many other people I know who live in Dublin, and train for marathons are in perpetual envy of our ready-made out-door training facility, which will be severely compromised if these plans go ahead.
On warm summer days in particular, traffic is heavy along the sea-front, and the cars are generally filled with people with their windows down looking across at the lucky residents of and visitors to Clontarf, who run, walk, cycle, sit, play & chat along the promenade, enjoying its accessibility, its vista and its sense of space, a feature of the area which has been enjoyed since the time of Dean Swift, who also used the area for the same purpose. If the proposals proceed, these cars will have a view of a wall, and a mound of grass to enjoy along the entire Clontarf “seafront”.
The wall & mound, if built, will have a huge economic impact on Clontarf. Businesses along the seafront who can attract custom partially due to the view will be impacted. Less visitors will be drawn to the area as the view has disappeared. Less visitors means less money being injected into the local economy. Less money in the local economy damages both businesses & residents. Property values in the area will certainly be impacted upon – just look at any property for sale in Clontarf on www.myhome.ie and see if it references the sea-front & promenade, and then ask why do they reference them, and then ask what will happen values if they cannot reference them.
The concern is that this method of flood defence & water-main conduit has been chosen for short-term economic reasons, without thought being given to the long-term economic impact. The damage to businesses long-term as noted above will eventually impact on the rates payable to the local authority. It appears penny-wise & pound foolish – without being an expert, I would imagine that there is a more comprehensive removable barrier that could be installed as required, and removed the other 99 years of the time, as it’s proposed to build a permanent structure to defend against a 100-year storm. Given the last flood of note was in 2000, presumably this structure will serve us well in 89 years time, and surely we’ll be thankful then. I am concerned that a solution to a sporadic problem is a permanent barrier. It’s like leaving the Paddy’s Day decorations up all year round.
The proposals if built will impact hugely, in historical, security, cultural, recreational & economical terms. Cast your eyes slightly south, to our neighbours in Fairview. Ever wonder why it is called Fairview? Ever wonder where that view is now?
If these proposals are allowed, it’s a view of Clontarf’s future.

I am totally opposed to this wall being built and agree with others who say that DCC have taken the cheapest option available….we are pumping millions into promoting the Island of Ireland as a leading Tourist Destination and Clontarf is used in a lot of this promotional advertising….have a look;

‘Retaining its natural charm and beauty, Clontarf has some of the most outstanding sights in Dublin.’
‘Clontarf is also the home of one of the world’s most unique flora and fauna. This is located at the Bull Island Nature Reserve.’

This text is taken from a Dublin Tours & Attractions website.  What will they write if this wall goes ahead…
‘Welcome to Dublin’s first take on the Berlin Wall albeit 3ft shorter, to have a look at the beautiful scenery beyond you may have to go upstairs on the bus’

DCC remember how much money it will cost to remove graffiti on a daily basis!! and the residents will be calling you everytime someone declares their love by spray can!!

Not happy with this idea at all and will help as much as I can to oppose this. It would take away a beautiful view, lovely landscape and the whole character of Clontarf. And it is an absolute disgrace that the council did not run this by the community, underhand goings on in this country yet again. Desperate idea and must be stopped.

What a horrible idea. I moved to Clontarf last year purely because the house I live in has a sea view and the promenade is so lovely. Its the nicest place I’ve ever lived and this would ruin it completely.

Totally agree with Emer. Pity the Dublin Council doesn’t keep the roads swept and clean. Also the shores should be cleared in order to avoid flooding.

I totally agree that this grass bank would definitely lead to social behavioural problems in the future! The height of the bank seems excessive! When they placed the sand bags, that cost all that money, to stop flooding, they were only 3-4 feet high! Is this not enough and if not, why did they bother putting them out in the first place! This needs to be stopped and rethought!!!!

Absolutely crazy idea to build this wall and block our beautiful views. If I have to spend time in Mountjoy for blocking bulldozers I’ll do it(I’m sure I won’t be the only one)!

As a Civil Engineer & Clontarf Road resident for most of my life, I have serious reservations over Engineering consultant used by the council. I won’t go into names but dealing with them on another scheme where flood protection was a driving factor my own personal opinion is they performed poorly, allegedly overran their budget for their works & the company I work for had to pick up the pieces.

Considering how they have now slashed their work force I would question how thorough their study was.

I wonder were they out on the promenade around the 24th - 28th of February 2009 when some of the highest flood levels were recorded around the country? it was a 1:100 year flood occurance, exactly what the proposed flood bund is supposed to protect against & a golden opertunity to collect data.

The height of the current sea wall is not the issue in my view. The absence of any non return system for the weep holes is the problem meaning the base of the existing wall was is the flood defence level & not the top as it should be. The only water to ever come over the top of that wall has only been from the force of the wave & there are less visually impacting solutions to that problem than a massive flood bund.

Have the coucil actually looked at other options, or is this another port tunnel where they didnt think it throught and certain trucks cant even fit.

What other options have been proposed? Have they done a case on the cost to clean grafitti up along the wall, this is clontarf not Berlin!!

This is ludicrous. How can any elected public official believe this can help the community when the potential risk is proven to be so low and the cost to all who use the promenada so high!

They should consider breaching the causeway and allow a flow of water thereby lessening the risk and maintaining wetlands (diminishing at an alarming rate) around Bull Island. It is muted that initial construction of this road was done without proper planning so at least they would be correcting a previous wrong.

This is a disgrace!!  I am proud of living in Clontarf and the main thing I love is the beautiful scenary and having it just across the road.  This plan will destroy all the goodness as to why people live/move to clontarf. This plan will make clontarf loose it’s value. Am strongly against this!!

I am a resident of Clontarf overlooking the bay area. I am absolutely annoyed that this proposal can be put forward. Iagree with previous comments of the anti social behavior which can arise but more so that the beautiful ammenity of the promenade will be destroyed.
There must be an easier way, that’s what we pay our officials for.

The last regime was involved in thiis berm project.
This is questionable knowing how we are all fixed now,
Spend wise, let the causway flow,so no SE backup and a clean bay.
EPA check the old maritime design

another gaza strip on the way!

eleanor lanigan

As a Contarf resident who cycles and goes running on the seafront I cannot believe this is the option being put in pace.  It seems like a drastic reaction to a problem that surely has better solutions. 

As other posters have pointed out - what of the safety of those using the seafront?  And the potential to turn this area into an area where local residents may not feel comfortable going?

We need to preserve the amenities that this city has rather than destroy them.  Hopefully an effort similiar to the “no to the 52 acres” can be started in response.

I can see there is a valid reason for dealing with the flood risk in Clontarf and I accept that something needs to be done. But there are a number of other ways to minimise the risk of flooding. Why is a 2 metre wall the only option suggested??

My belief is that Dublin County Council has taken the cheapest option possible. They are effectively valuing the sea view and the promenade at a paltry ?3million. For the thousands of people who have walked, jogged, played sport, cycled, chatted with friends or simply drove along the seafront throughout the years enjoying the view; I wonder would they accept this as an adequate valuation?  By building this wall Dublin City Council will stop future generations from having the same experiences. The question must also be raised whether there is any connection with the 52 acres issue?

There are numerous other valid reasons that the CRA have outlined; security risks, rise of anti social behaviour; building a two metre wall is an open invitation for an increase in crime in the area. It my belief that building this wall will also further diminish property valuations in what is an already troubled and unstable housing market.

There are so many reasons why alternative options need to be put forward. Simply destroying something which is the very essence and heart of Clontarf without dialogue with those who it affects, the local residents, cannot be allowed to proceed. This must be stopped.

Every time I approach Clontarf Road from the City after a stressful working day , my soul is uplifted when I see the view across the bay !
You have something very special on your door steps.
DO NOT LET IT BE DESTROYED.
On behalf of every Dublin Resident, Please Save the Promenade….......!

Can every body send John Tierney - Dublin City Manager an email outling their opposition to this scheme,
HE IS GOING TO SIGN THE DOCUMENT ON THURSDAY TO SEAL THE FAITH OF THE CLONTARF PROMENADE FOREVER !
His address is manager@dublincity.ie

Before: Biking, Boot camp, Brunch, Brisk walks all looking out over the beautiful sea front of Clontarf, feeling safe. 

After: Bikers, Boot camps, Brunch, Brisk walks looking at a 9ft stone wall more than likely covered in grafitti, seaward side littered with rubbish and other paraphernalia from that almost guaranteed anti social behaviour.

Ludicrious!

Madness! Why some mad person wants to build an 8th wall to block a glorious view of the sea is beyond silly. This is such a fab amenity, you only have to go to the promenade any evening or wkd to see how much everyone enjoys it.

All clontarf residents must get together to object to this insane plan!

This is terrible and after reading the above report it would appear that it could cause anti-social behavior as anything happening on the seaward side would be out of view. Obviously sea defenses are very necessary for safety but surely a more sympathetic plan could be implemented.

I think this wall should be built. Despite what Clontarf residents think, walls don’t commit crime. Residents should be grateful that this project has been given the green light

Build the wall

These plans are an absolute outrage, what planet are these so called “planners” living on that are determined to subject Clontarf to this horrific wall??! Blocking not only our views - but the open expanse of the area - something that everyone can enjoy (not just residents of Clontarf). There most definately are other options available - so why aren’t these avenues being explored? Visually, this will ruin the appearence of Clontarf - but emotionally it will do something much deeper, it will shatter the moral in our wonderful area. Why was this done in such a stealth manner - whereby we are only finding out about this now???? We cannot allow this to happen.

Do these planners not realise how much crime this wall proposes?? Behind the wall will become a hub for junkies as it is a perfect hiding place for them, how many attacks will occur behind the wall? Is that what Clontarf has come to??

I have lived here all my life and on a sunny evening the view still takes my breath away.  If they are going to erect an 8foot wall they would want to make it padded as it will drive the entire community mad. 

Surely it isn’t legal to imprison an entire community like this???

There are probably a number of options available to prevent flooding in the area. The wholesale destruction of such a iconic location is an example of the short sightedness that is so prevelant in the way this country is governed. What are the alternatives and why has such bad decision been allowed slip past the notice of most of Dublin? Its a load of bull..

I would quite prefer to be looking at a protective bund from the sea front than looking from my home using goggles and oxygen tanks. The Clontarf middle classes - I am indeed a member - think that the universe revolves around them. For heaven’s sake, we need this protection and we are lucky tp get it funded at this time. Grow up.

I don’t actually live in Clontarf - but I do sail past it regularly - and would very much appreciate not having to look at the local residents. 9ft may perhaps be a shade too low - play it safe and go for 12!!

The seafront is a major amenity not just for Clontarf , but for the city. The seafront belongs to all of us who use it on a daily basis. Who are the morons who have suggested this? Flooding on the seafront is rare, surely engineers can come up with a better solution?

This proposal is completely unacceptable.

The proposal is excessive especially considering the comparitive risk of flooding.If (and its a big if)this height of defence is necessary it should be done by raising the existing sea wall and the pathway so that the prom and sea walks are maintained.

I am Clontarf born and bred - have been living here all of my life, as has my husband. 

My family home is on the seafront - I grew up there and my nieces/nephew are the 4th generation of my family living there now.  We were flooded back in the early 80s - but even with that experience, there is no way that these proposed flooding defences should even have been contemplated, never mind agreed upon.

The seafront and its amenities are part of what makes Clontarf special.  I want my kids to grow up and appreciate its beauty, and to enjoy the same facilities that we did growing up.

This strikes me as being the cheapest option - not the best option.

I am strongly opposed to this and will join in and fight to ensure that this amenity is not destroyed.

When I first became aware by email of the proposal I honestly thought it was one of those silly emails floating around and when you got to the end there would be a ‘funny’ punchline.  Unfortunately this is no joke - its an unbelievable proposal.  Is there any sight to surpass the wonderful open aspect as you drive from the city after a fraught days work? Once you arrive at the Alfie Byrne road junction the vista ahead is just uplifting.  It is quite obvious the planners involved have no knowledge of life in Clontarf.  The seafront is an absolutely wonderful amenity to young and old. Was there ever a census taken - especially on a summers evening - of the number of people walking the prom - children & teenagers playing on the grass? Are we to lose all of this? It is time for the planners to Listen to the Residents of Clontarf and go back to the drawing board.

As a proud Clontarf Resident all my life, I am beyond appalled by the proposed “developments” for the destruction of our beautiful seafront in our area. Not only would we be losing our biggest amenity in the area (which will in itself vastly reduce the number of people that visit our area and support the businesses) but will increase the amount of antisocial behaviour and other crimes ten fold once the seafront is encased with a 9 ft wall. Who ever came up with this nonsensical idea needs their head examined! Granted, flood damage is awful to all those effected, however, other measures could and should be taken to lessen the chances of this happening rather than taking this ridiculous drastic action to rid our area of its open expanse and views. Are we destined to turn into Fairview “strand” which has no views of the sea whatsoever and resembles no “strand” at all!!??!!

cannot believe the “wall” is being pushed through without open democratic discussion.  The promenade belongs to all who walk , jog ,cycle ,paint, photograph, or just simply enjoy it.  ... ```````````The damage to wildlife, businesses and local community life wil be huge

I am appalled the proposed plans to construct wall and mounds of such height will effectively ruin the clontarf promenade, resuluting in loss to business and tourism and the loss of a great local amenity.

I strongly object to these plans. I have lived, luckly, most of my life in Clontarf and would hate to see this amenity taken away from all northsiders. The bigger issue is the build up of slit in the sea close to Clontarf. We should be looking at ways to reduce this, rather than taking away such a well used and much loved promenade. SAVE OUR PROM!!!!

Strongly object to the latest proposals!

I love the view along the promeande and I also have concerns about anti social behaviour, however I’ve been flooded before and I understand the damage this can cause and it can be ruinous to households and small business.

The whole thing is a ruse to get the 52 acre infill through.  Once we cannot see the sea any longer and the view removed we will wake up to Dublin Port on our doorstep.  They have ridden rough shod over the people in the Ringsend area and now they are going to do the same in the Clontarf area.  People wake up and smell our representatives and the brown envelopes they represent.  They are certainly not representing the people who voted them in - they are only representing the brown envelpes being passed around.  And we throught we had gotten rid of Finna Fail and their way of doing business.  We haev only swopped them for the Fine Gael crowd who missed out on the back handers.  We are seriously in trouble if this goes ahead.  Have we no say anymore as to how our taxes are used?  Why all the secrecy?  Who is really benefiting?  Come on people OBJECT.

I am very disappointed to read of these proposals. As someone who grew up in Clontarf, I place a great value on the promenade as a local amenity. My own children are now also enjoying this amenity that we are so blessed to have nearby.

The promenade is valued by young and old but in particular we owe it to the children of Clontarf to do all in our power to stop this plan going ahead.

I strongly object to these plans. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This would ruin the seafront and we must stick together on this and get the plans amended.

Can’t help but think that this is in no small way connected to the further development of Dublin Port and the filling in of the 52 acres

Dublin City Council plan to create a playground for anti-social behaviour and destroy an area of outstanding natural beauty.
3 reasons it is wrong and we must fight this madness;
1. What sane women will feel safe using the area for fear of attack-just imagine the haven for drug taking, drinking and everything that follows!
2. Depression is one of our society’s biggest problems - and DCC want to remove a free natural source of happiness
3. Existing recreational facilities will be destroyed. Training areas will become slopes - cyclists will move from the cycle lane to the pathway to see the sea - causing hazard to everyone else
MADNESS - come on people let’s fight this one - the banks and teh government of teh last 14 years have taken our kids future - lets not lose our natural amenities as well!
FIGHT - stand up for something that is really important!

I am completely opposed to the plan by Dublin City Council to erect a wall of up to 8ft high on the promenade in Clontarf which will effectively block the sea views. This is been done in the absence of any consultation with local residents and would ruin an amenity that is used by young and old and enjoyed by all   . This is absolute madness and has to be stopped .

I do not live in Clontarf and I am jealous of people with a sea view. I think these plans should go ahead. All good things come to an end. Sea level rise will render this protection useless in a few years anyway

When I read the application for this development, my impression was that the bund/wall was only going to be circa 1mt high; and while most people would agree that some sort of defence had to be put in place, I don’t remember anything in the application to the effect that the Berlin Wall was to be erected on our Promenade. Dublin Bay is the jewel in our city and the promenade in Clontarf is an integral part of it. We have spent the last twelve years opposing the infill of over 100 acres of Dublin Bay by Dublin Port Company and Dublin City Council also voiced their opinion against that proposal. Now they have come up with a hair-brained development that would destroy the visual and the environmental aspect of this fantastic amenity with the stroke of a pen. The promenade is used by thousands of Dubliners all year round for all kinds of recreational purposes and, what makes it more enjoyable is, you have the sea to keep you company. 

Dublin City Council seems to have been able to conceal in the dark regions of this application, that at certain points the barrier would be up to eight feet high - otherwise there would have been thousands of objections to this proposal. I would also like to point out that none of the elected representatives/councillors seems to be aware of this outrageous blob on the landscape of our promenade, as the height of this barrier has only come to light in the last few weeks. If this application is allowed to proceed, it will cause the destruction of this amenity for the following reasons:

? It will cause antisocial behaviour on a massive scale (the board walk in the city centre comes to mind), this wall/bund will hide all the goings on as they cannot be seen from the Clontarf Road side;
? People safety is gone out the door as all ordinary law abiding citizens will not venture on to the sea side of this wall;
? Parents will not allow their children on to the sea side, again because they will not be visible from the road side;
? It will divide the promenade in two;
? It will create the biggest no-go area on the North side of Dublin;
? It will destroy one of the best amenities that this city has.

If this outrageous proposal goes ahead, the person or persons in Dublin City Council who rubber stamped this plan must be held accountable for the massive problems it is going to cause. There seems to be a lack of common sense with these people.
All this when the Sutton to Sandymount cycle track is due to be completed:- why bother, when you wont be able to see the sea from the Bull Bridge to the Alfie Byrne Road anyway?
Dublin City Council must be big enough and put their hands up and say we got this wrong and make radical changes to this plan before it is too late.

Joe Nolan
Clontarf resident & Dublin bay Watch

Brains and dangerous come to mind when I read these plans.  Most countries would make the seafront a tourist attraction and we want to delete it.  It would be a tragedy if this plan went ahead.

You can download from the Dublin City Council website a 325 page pdf document outlining in detail the proposed project, and the “rationale” behind it. It is called “North City Water Supply Phase 1 and 2… Clontarf Flood Defences”. Check out pages 179, 180 and 181 to see their best efforts of dismissing any protest made on the grounds that it will obliterate the sea view from the Clontarf road, hilarious! I have reviewed the document and reading between the many many lines it would appear to me that they are advancing this notion of the need to build a 2.75 metre high flood defence along the promenade to basically allow them to lay a new water mains on top of the existing promenade surface, and then conveniently bury it under a pile of topsoil.

As a resident of Clontarf road, one of the main reasons we live here is because of the views. this is an outrageous proposal to think we would have to look onto a wall 2.5 metres high. i agree there must be some action taken to reduce the risk of flooding in the higher risk areas but certainly not destroy one of the beautiful amenities we have here in Clontarf. surely in this current economic climate they could find other areas in much need of large sums of money which they plan to input to this ridiculous project.

As a resident of the Clontarf Road for over seventy years I am opposed to the further restriction of of our view of the Bay.The need for flood defences arises from the development of the port by the Port and Docks Board as was pointed out over forty years ago but nobody listened.

When Dublin City Council went ahead with contstructing their own offices on Wood Quay, they showed blind indifference and complete disregard of the very foundations of our city, culture and heritage. Therefore we cannot expect anything less from them on this issue.
Tell your friends, relations, colleagues, post it on social networks, intranet etc. not just to fellow Clontarfians, people all over Ireland know about Clontarf and would lend their support. The only way to stop this madness is to unite and fight for Clontarf. Where’s Joe Duffy on this? I can only assume he won’t be best pleased!

It is hard to believe that we find ourselves in such a predicament ,however it is at this point how the matter is dealt with. The prospect of losing the unique promenade that we have is daunting. The Battle of Clontarf seafront must begin and everyone needs to help out . I believe collectively we can come up wiith a solution to overcome the drastic measures that DCC are taking ,Flooding of the promenade is rare and does not justify the current proposals,

It is hard to believe that we find ourselves in such a predicament ,however it is at this point how the matter is dealt with. The prospect of losing the unique promenade that we have is daunting. The Battle of Clontarf seafront must begin and everyone needs to help out . I believe collectively we can come up wiith a solution to overcome the drastic measures that DCC are taking ,Flooding of the promenade is rare and does not justify the current proposals,

This is an outrageous proposal to deal with the threat of potential flooding. It’s a scandal! It will be an eyesore, will ruin the very ethos of Clontarf’s attraction as a place to visit, work and live. To construct such a defence system as proposed will result in local businesses closing down, and residents moving out. There may not need to have a flood defence to protect vacant properties along the sea-front. This will not be tolerated by anyone who appreciates the beauty of Clontarf and who enjoys walking, running, or cycling it’s coastline. How can this be passed as a legitimate proposal? We won’t stand for this.

This plan was sneaked through which shows they knew what they
were doing hiding a water main in flood defences. A mound/wall of
this height is unacceptable to local people. It makes the prom
less safe, ruins the view and creates a perfect haven for crime.

No.

I think we all see this for what it is - a lame, lazy, pathetic excuse to run a water main along the Clontarf Road using sea defence as justification.
There is no head shop in Clontarf and there wont be a water main either !

I have a photography studio on The Clontarf Road and was flooded in 2000, but I would rather be flooded again than for this plan to go forward. The one unique thing we have in Clontarf is the promenade. It is the envy of everyone who doesn’t live here and attracts many people to walk and enjoy the view and air. There are many who wouldn’t feel safe walking along it if this wall and mound are built. It would become a muggers and junkies paradise. Screened from view, with older people being unable to climb over the mound, they would be sitting ducks for any mugger. This plan was sneaked through and must not be allowed to happen.

I was born and rared on the Clontarf Road. This is a disgraceful thing to try and implement. Maybe we all fell asleep and now awake on April Fools Day. Crazy, i for one will oppose this all the way. Flooding on the coast road only occurs in certain areas and then only very rarely. Surely there are more needy causes to spend taxpayers money on rather than destroy an amenity that is used by people from all over our fair city.

Where is the logic and sense in a plan for defense of a once in a 100 year flood that will obliterate the view of the seafront from the road , invite anti-social behaviour on the promenade , cause local business i.e. food/shops to lose valuable trade as the seafront attracts people from all areas to enjoy this amenity. This affects everybody.I am very much opposed to this plan there has to be a better one!

D??LI? CIT? C???CIL PL???I?G D?P??TM??T

PL??S T? D?F??D CL??T??F F??M ?TT?C? ?? S??

?? ??? G?I?G T? ??ILD ?IG ?IG ??LL!!!

??LL ?ILL L?ST F?? TH??S??D ????S!!!!!

?? ?ILL SM?SH S??!!!!!!!

F??M TH? ?IS? P??PL? ?H? ????GHT ??? ??LL?M??

G?D ?L?SS TH? M?TH??L??D

While I, like many others, accept that Coastal Engineering is a ‘necessary evil’ in the face of coastal erosion and coastal flooding generally, I feel that in the case of the promenade at Clontarf there is a real absence of strategic vision in the response to flooding in this coastal zone. Normally coastal management decisions such as this include some or all of the following actions: engineering works, environmental measures, economic development and management policy and plan formulation. In this proposal the proposed intervention to manage coastal flooding goes against the first rule of coastal management ‘to work with, rather than against, the natural system’. These planned preventative engineering works are radical in scale and are a disproportionate response being not aimed at the ‘average’ seasonal conditions but rather being put in place at enormous financial expense to combat ‘extreme’ climatic or environmental conditions when and if they arise.

When assessing coastal zone conditions it is necessary to access old mapping and orthophotography, remotely sensed imagery, weather records and hydrographic charts together with new technologies such as lidar imagery. Often local historical anecdotal evidence, as recorded in the local parish records for instance, can yield valuable insights into the pattern of change and timelines etc. Only through a full assessment of such data the current coastal concerns can be set within a historical context. In an absence of such a thorough investigation (which to my knowledge has not taken place in this case), decisions such as this one here, result in large remedial coastal engineering steps being taken based on flawed or weak evidence.

Environmental considerations together with societal concerns are integral to the success of any project.  The general public of Dublin (this does not merely affect Clontarf residents) must be accepting of the aesthetics of any engineering works and that these do not retract from the visual amenity of the coastal region. The scale of what is proposed here fails to recognize that the Clontarf promenade – this land-sea interface - is an integral part of the city as a whole, not merely local residents – both as an amenity and as a visual seascape, and that decision-makers must be cognisant of the detrimental consequences of this proposed intervention which will have wide ranging economic, social and environmental impact – far beyond what has been assessed or investigated to date.

If anyone else like me would like to complain to Dublin City Council over this issue their contact details are below:

Dublin City Council
Email: customerservices@dublincity.ie
Ph: 01 2222222.
Fax 01 2228200.

I’m willing to camp out and stop the builders! There is NO WAY this can happen! Who do these people think they are? Im appauled by this! Im very proud of Clontarf the way everyone is sticking together!

We need to stick together on this. We will stop these people from ruining our area if we have to lie down on the grass and block the builders. its an outrage and will not happen if Clontarf residents have anything to do with it.

This is truly an amazing proposition, to put an 8ft wall in front of a scenic amenity which is used and loved by the entire city would not be countenanced in any modern European city . One of the earlier comments is absolutely correct, given the current financial situation, and the fact that absolutely nothing was done about flood defences when money was available, this scheme is obviously motivated by the recent setback to Dublin Ports expansion plans, by removing the sea vista as a valid objection.

But this is Ireland, where we charge people to look at the cliffs of Moher, and where planning laws are used to facilitate the interests of the well-connected/wealthy, not the people.

The seafront is a valuable resource which belongs to all the people, and should be protected as such. Haven’t we destroyed enough of the city already, let’s leave something intact for future generations.

from dublin bay watch.

hi all.unfortunately our website is down at present! - please email all people you think will have a view on this and get them to post on this website with their views.

thanks

justin o’flaherty

YOU PEOPLE ASTOUND ME !
Congrats. without sounding like a revolutionary you would make
SEAN DUBLIN BAY LOFTUS proud.
Stick together on this one - The People of Clontarf Unite (for a change).
It’s ironic - still protecting our shoreline 1000 years later !

this is absolutely unbelievable and a complete disgrace - we in dublin bay watch took our eye off the ball here and apologies for that - no surprise given we’ve been fighting the other clowns (dublin port) for the last 11 years and deserved a break after repelling the latest infill attempt.this is ireland though and the port is reapplying again - how many times must they hear the word no before they eventually p**** off.

though we knew this flood defence system was on the way the understanding was the was that the wall/mound would be 3ft in height.

one of our great arguments in the 52 (soon to be 100) acres was the vista. this will obviously ruin this particular objection. i wonder what the port’s imput is in all of this? i am also told that this wall/mound will run down the middle of the prom and not at the current sea wall - incredible. for years people have ran/walked on the prom and it is now apparently to be divided in 2. this laughable idea could only be dreamed up by some clown in authority in ireland.

central govt policy destroyed and bankrupted our nation - let’s make sure that local govt is not allowed ruin our neighbourhood to boot. make sure dublin city council is put in it’s place regarding this latest irish joke!! you would never see this in any other country in the world - blocking off a view of the sea - laughable!!

object to your local and central govt representative NOW!!!!

justin o’flaherty

Former FF TD for Dublin North Central, Sean Haughey was delighted with the Flood Defence plan earlier this year. This is his news release.

Dublin North Central TD, Minister for Lifelong Learning, Se?n Haughey has welcomed the announcement that Dublin City Council has been given approval to invite tenders for the Fairview/Clontarf section of the North City Arterial Watermain. The works will be funded by the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
The pipeline will be laid from Fairview Park running along the Clontarf Road to the Bull Wall. It has been designed to augment the water distribution system so that both the Leixlip-Ballycoolin and the Vartry-Stillorgan networks can feed into this area. When completed the arterial watermain will provide a ring main around the north-east of the city providing flexibility in the transfer of water throughout the area, increasing security of supply.
?This is excellent news and will be welcomed by all local residents. Importantly too, for reasons of synergy and efficiency the contract also incorporates the Clontarf Flood Defence Project, proposed by the Office of Public Works, which comprises a series of earth embankments, flood walls and flood gates, approximately 3km in length, and which will be landscaped into the existing Clontarf promenade. It has been revealed that the design of the tidal flood defences has been based on a 200 year event with an allowance made for climate change to 2055.?
?I understand that construction work on site will begin in the second quarter of 2011 and because of phasing of construction to mitigate environmental impacts, is likely to take two years to complete. It makes sound economic sense that the Clontarf Flood Defence plan is being incorporated into the North City Arterial Watermain scheme. This section of the watermain is estimated to cost ?6.9M while the total spend on the contract, including the flood defence works, is likely to be ?11.26M.?
?I am delighted that the Government has delivered on its commitment to fund the important components of this merged project. The arterial watermain will ensure better water management in this part of the city while the flood defence works will ensure greater tidal protection for residential areas adjacent to this part of Dublin?s coastline. All the relevant parties, including Dublin City Council, the OPW and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government are to be complimented for their combined efforts in working together for these much needed improvements

Is Dublin City Council for real? An 8ft wall blocking beautiful seaviews!
Was there a consultation process between the planners and local people?
Clontarf seafront is a major amenity for locals and visitors and such an ill- conceived, anomalous plan will destroy it.
Businesses will also suffer with less passing trade.
I strongly urge the city council to scrap this insensitive plan, and come up something more realistic and aesthetically pleasing.

I feel that these plans are outragious will affect the overall beauty and amenities that Clontarf has to offer, i use the seafront alot for exercise and cycle to and from work, and also family outings.

Apart from that it will poses a safety risk, im so against this proposal and will support any protests that will help protect the seafront

I am appalled at this idea.  The sea view in Clontarf is one of the area’s most important amenities.  The entire area will suffer, not just aesthetically, but I am convinced financially.  People come from other areas to Clontarf specifically to stroll by the sea in a safe area.  It is vital a more environmentally sympathetic solution is worked out, and dare I suggest the unthinkable; that residents and local businesses be fully consulted in any decision made?  It strikes me as a most impractical solution.

This is a joke right? Its not possible that this can actually happen??? Who thought this could ever be a good idea. This needs to be stopped. Im shocked that its even a possibility.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  Clontarf seafront is a valuable amenity to many, not just those living in the immediate area but the many thousands who make their way there throughout the course of the year - especially during the summer months and for the Clontarf Festival. 

It will have a huge impact on businesses, home owners and the many, many people that use it on a daily basis.  As somebody who walks this route regularly I don’t think I’d feel safe if I was to be hidden behind a great wall because of an event that is likely to happen once in 100 years? 

Surely somebody at Dublin City Council can see that we need to encourage tourism to Dublin and that building walls and destroying wonderful areas like Clontarf are not exactly the right way to do this?

Absolutely unbelievable that the council would propose such a ham fisted solution to one of the best amenities in Dublin.

It is a wonderful amenity for walkers, joggers, cyclists, residents, businesses,
It offers wonderful views to the sea from the town and to the town from the sea.
It has been a thing of admiration from the first village that was set up in Clontarf and people came from all over Dublin to holiday here in the days before mass transit. There are wonderful historical photos of the tram system that ran down here in bygone days.
It even makes sitting in a traffic jam every morning bearable because one can look out the window and contemplate deeper thoughts than morning rush hour.

This is preposterous and has to be opposed.

Were this to be proposed in Sandymount (though I doubt it would) it would not get beyond a feasibility sketch.

Gone would be the fantastic Clontarf festival and rather than a sea view the coast road would feel like you were travelling along a motorway embankment.

Terrible proposal.

Let’s treat it with the respect it deserves and bin it!

This would be a disaster for Clontarf and would take away one of the most appealing aspects of living here - the ability to walk safely on the sea-front at any time. I would not feel safe walking at night if I couldn’t be seen from the road, especially in darkness.

It would also be a huge blow for businesses, as it is a great attraction for visitors and the success of this year’s Clontarf Summer Festival is testament to that.

There has to be a better way to deal with floods that only happen once in 100 years than ruin a beautiful natural setting for everyone.

Who are the morons who even suggested this ???? Where do they live ??? Certainly not on in Dublin. This has to be stopped NOW